I have an old antenna in the attic. When i moved into my house i
hooked it up to the tv. It works ok. Some channels dont come in
perfect some of the time. I've tried adjusting it w/ no luck. I see
these new style antennas for sale on line.
 http://www.antennahub.com/highgainoutdoorhdtvantennawithmotorrotorax-909-preorder.aspx

Are they better then the old style?
Has anyone tried both?

On 9/1/2010 11:05 PM, Jdog wrote:
> I have an old antenna in the attic. When i moved into my house i
> hooked it up to the tv. It works ok. Some channels dont come in
> perfect some of the time. I've tried adjusting it w/ no luck. I see
> these new style antennas for sale on line.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
SPAM?


Antennas come in all flavors. The technology is old.

>
> Are they better then the old style?
> Has anyone tried both?

I'm suspicious of the stats for the "new", 35 dB is very high. Built in 
preamp?

Check what kind of antenna you need:

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

   Jeff

On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:05:02 -0700 (PDT), Jdog <j...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I have an old antenna in the attic. When i moved into my house i
>hooked it up to the tv. It works ok. Some channels dont come in
>perfect some of the time. I've tried adjusting it w/ no luck. I see
>these new style antennas for sale on line.
>
>
>Are they better then the old style?

We don't know what the old style is that you refer to.  You don't
describe it.

Take a look at www.solidsignal.com .   They don't sell anything like
the one in your picture. 

One thing the one in the ad has is a rotor.  I have had one with a
rotor and I found it a pain in the neck.  I just picked the best
overall direction and I stayed with that.     IF the rotors gave good
feedback, so I could tell which way they were pointed for a station
that gave the best signal, that would be one thing, but they give
estmates at best, afaict.  Your ad doesn't go into that so it's no
better than the others, I would think. 

They don't call their antenna a digital antenna.  I'll give them
credit for that (or they're repeating what is on the box and they got
these antennas out of a warehouse where they have been for 5 or more
years.) There is nothing different about a digital and an analog
antenna.   However becuase of the deficiencies of digital, one may
need a better antenna. 

>Has anyone tried both?

I used to use a 6 foot piece of single strand wire, and I got all the
local digital stations, but I wanted to get the DC station, 40 miles
away, so I bought the biggest 7 to 86 antenna I thought would fit in
my attic. 

It's pointed at DC and it too gets Baltimore but with the same
interruptions at times. 

I plan to buy a second omnidirectional one, and use a splitter
(combiner) to connect both to my DVDR, etc.   Also probably an
amplifier, although solid signal sells so many I don't know which one.
I haven't found a good web page about that so I have been meaning to
call them for advice.

Even better than antennaweb imo is TVfool.com  It will tell you all
the stations in your area, what channel they are broadcasting on, from
what direction and from how far away.   Few tv stations use channels 2
to 6, even if you tune your tv to 2 or 6, they are really on another
frequency.  In all but a  very few areas of the US there is at least
one major station that uses at least one channel 7 to 13, so you will
need high-VHF.   If you don't have even one channel bellow 14, you can
get a UHF only antenna. 

If you don't need channels 2 to 6, you don't need an antenna with the
really big elements.  I think the longest on mine are 3 or 4 feet,
because I have no stations below channel 7. 

On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:05:02 -0700 (PDT), Jdog <j...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I have an old antenna in the attic. When i moved into my house i
>hooked it up to the tv. It works ok. Some channels dont come in
>perfect some of the time. I've tried adjusting it w/ no luck. I see
>these new style antennas for sale on line.
>
>Are they better then the old style?
>Has anyone tried both?

I just noticed the dimensions. 

Dimensions: 22.8" x 17.7" x 25.8"

I'm not sure which dimension refers to what, but all but one of the
elements are smaller than the maximum in the same direction.   They
are folded over, but I'm not sure that's good.  Let's assume it's not
bad.  It still leaves those elements at about 3/2 the dimension, ad
most 38", and 5 of the 6 of them are the same size.   (or 7.  One or
two things are reflectors)

The antennas they have been selling for 60 years have elements of
different lengths because there are channels of different wavelengths.

The better antenanas have more elements, each of a different length. 

Let's assume it could be bad to have the element folded over.  It
could be because the same tv signal will induce a current in one
direction in one half of the element and in the opposite direction in
the ohter half of the element.  Or maybe not, but it seems that way to
me. 

Ah, but it probably has an amplifier.   It's much better to have a
strong signal from the antenna, than a weak signal that is amplified.
Amplifiers are recommended when there is a long distance from the
antenna to the tv.  Of course maybe that used to be more true, because
the antenna would amplify the "noise" too.  Now most noise is filtered
out in the process of digital detection.   Maybe.  I'm no techie.

That said, I'm dissatisfied with my big antenna and I'm going to buy
an amplifier on the hopesw that it will help. 

The first week the antenna was in the attic, I got channel 26, and
channels 30.1 to 30.5.  Teh channels 30 are even farther from me than
DC, but I hven't gotten them again except in the middle of the night.
So I do have a signal but maybe it is too weak. 

On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:05:02 -0700 (PDT), Jdog <j...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I have an old antenna in the attic. When i moved into my house i
>hooked it up to the tv. It works ok. Some channels dont come in
>perfect some of the time. I've tried adjusting it w/ no luck. I see
>these new style antennas for sale on line.
>
>Are they better then the old style?
>Has anyone tried both?

"Any Color Code - This large directional antenna can be used in any
color code specified on AntennaWeb.org "

Yeah, you can use it, but will it work?  I wish they had phrased this
differently, or maybe they knew exactdly what they were doing and
phrased it just so so they couldn't be charged with lying. 

I forget what the 7th color is but if this antenna will bring in
signals from that range, I'll eat my hat.

This is all they say about tmiles.

"This long range digital outdoor HD TV antenna has been known to pick
up stations that are around 150 miles away. We have had customers call
and tell us how happy they were with their antenna because they were
able to pick up stations up to 150 miles away. We have even had
customers tell us they were able to pick up US broadcasts from Canada.
So we are very confident that this antenna will work for you." 

Baloney. Because of the curvature of the earth, no one can get tv from
150 miles away unles somewhere there is a transmitting antenna many
times higher than any near you.     They amaybe talking about people
who live 150 miles from the CN Tower, which is the 3rd highest tower
(that is, including tall buildings) in the world, 1815 feet.  Do you
live within 150 miles of Toronto?  If not, forget it. 

It's getting late for me, butyou can check this out. 

http://www.google.com/#num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&q=cn+tower+tv+channels&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=b7ba7271b
f89c8c4

"mm" <N...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:7...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:05:02 -0700 (PDT), Jdog <j...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I have an old antenna in the attic. When i moved into my house i
> >hooked it up to the tv. It works ok. Some channels dont come in
> >perfect some of the time. I've tried adjusting it w/ no luck. I see
> >these new style antennas for sale on line.
> >
> >
> >Are they better then the old style?
>
> We don't know what the old style is that you refer to.  You don't
> describe it.
>
> Take a look at www.solidsignal.com .   They don't sell anything like
> the one in your picture.
>
> One thing the one in the ad has is a rotor.  I have had one with a
> rotor and I found it a pain in the neck.  I just picked the best
> overall direction and I stayed with that.     IF the rotors gave good
> feedback, so I could tell which way they were pointed for a station
> that gave the best signal, that would be one thing, but they give
> estmates at best, afaict.  Your ad doesn't go into that so it's no
> better than the others, I would think.
>
> They don't call their antenna a digital antenna.  I'll give them
> credit for that (or they're repeating what is on the box and they got
> these antennas out of a warehouse where they have been for 5 or more
> years.) There is nothing different about a digital and an analog
> antenna.   However becuase of the deficiencies of digital, one may
> need a better antenna.
>
> >Has anyone tried both?
>
> I used to use a 6 foot piece of single strand wire, and I got all the
> local digital stations, but I wanted to get the DC station, 40 miles
> away, so I bought the biggest 7 to 86 antenna I thought would fit in
> my attic.
>
> It's pointed at DC and it too gets Baltimore but with the same
> interruptions at times.



I'm in the same area and in the same boat and live in the shadow of a hill
that obscures the line of sight with the big TV antenna complex near the
Sears near Tenleytown.  The problem I had with the rotor is that my DVR has
no way to rotate the aerial to the proper direction for the channel I want
to record.  Since I have two DVRs, I ended up putting two antennas in the
attic:  one optimized for DC and the other for Baltimore.  I segregate my
recording based on that.  Stations coming from Baltimore go to DVR one,
stations from Washington, DVR two.  Later this year, I am going to mount a
tall mast on the chimney and put up the rotor again, with the largest aerial
I can find to pull in the stations like 22 that broadcast from Annapolis, 90
degrees away from Baltimore or Washington and some other transmitters that
aren't located with the other major towers.  )-:

I still get dropouts, though, from overhead planes, rain clouds and elves.
(IOU, I am not sure what causes them, but I do know they proliferate at the
ends of programs where they're saying "Of course, the killer had to be -
silence, splotches, more silence and finally the picture returns).  As fuzzy
as analog was, I don't remember losing key parts of the transmission they
way I do with digital.  I've also discovered that there's an incredible
variation in tuners.  The Polaroid DVR doesn't get half the channels that a
new, no name 7" portable can pull in off the same aerial.  Probably a 7 year
difference in date of manufacture, though.  I have noticed that even my
friends with FIOS have problems in rainstorms because the weather affects
the satellite transmissions from orbit to the FIOS dishes.

Still, I'm happy with basic cable, OTA HD and Netflix.  And having a DVR
with a commercial skip button.  I don't think I could watch TV anymore
without one.

--
Bobby G.

mm wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:05:02 -0700 (PDT), Jdog <j...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> I have an old antenna in the attic. When i moved into my house i
>> hooked it up to the tv. It works ok. Some channels dont come in
>> perfect some of the time. I've tried adjusting it w/ no luck. I see
>> these new style antennas for sale on line.
>>
>> Are they better then the old style?
>> Has anyone tried both?
> 
> "Any Color Code - This large directional antenna can be used in any
> color code specified on AntennaWeb.org "
> 
> Yeah, you can use it, but will it work?  I wish they had phrased this
> differently, or maybe they knew exactdly what they were doing and
> phrased it just so so they couldn't be charged with lying. 
> 
> I forget what the 7th color is but if this antenna will bring in
> signals from that range, I'll eat my hat.
> 
> This is all they say about tmiles.
> 
> "This long range digital outdoor HD TV antenna has been known to pick
> up stations that are around 150 miles away. We have had customers call
> and tell us how happy they were with their antenna because they were
> able to pick up stations up to 150 miles away. We have even had
> customers tell us they were able to pick up US broadcasts from Canada.
> So we are very confident that this antenna will work for you." 
> 
> Baloney. Because of the curvature of the earth, no one can get tv from
> 150 miles away unles somewhere there is a transmitting antenna many
> times higher than any near you.     They amaybe talking about people
> who live 150 miles from the CN Tower, which is the 3rd highest tower
> (that is, including tall buildings) in the world, 1815 feet.  Do you
> live within 150 miles of Toronto?  If not, forget it. 
> 
> It's getting late for me, butyou can check this out. 
> 
>
http://www.google.com/#num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&q=cn+tower+tv+channels&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=b7ba7271b
f89c8c4

Getting stations from more than 150 miles away reliably and repeatedly 
may be impossible, but it DOES happen. E-layer reflections, IIRC, is 
what allows it. Under certain conditions, the cloud layer creates a 
tunnel of sorts that can carry signal past line of sight. I used to get 
it often in analog days, but have only noticed it once since the switch 
to digital. And that was with one of those powered indoor antennas, 
placed in a window. I'm in SW MI, two counties in from the big lake. I 
was playing with the converter box, and told it to auto-search. For 
about 4 hours, I was getting a station in Milwaukee WI, clear as a bell.

I also need to replace what is left of my rooftop antenna, but have been 
procrastinating it for several years, since it would involve crawlspace 
time replacing cable runs. So when BigLots had the powered indoor 
antennas on sale for 20 bucks, I figured 'what the hell', and actually 
have had surprisingly good results with it. I can't get all the stations 
I want to get, but I can get the big 4 networks reliably, with a little 
trial and error turning the camera tripod I have the antenna sitting on.

(No, no SWMBO lives here. Why do you ask?)

-- 
aem sends...

On 9/2/2010 2:59 AM, mm wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:05:02 -0700 (PDT), Jdog<j...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I have an old antenna in the attic. When i moved into my house i
>> hooked it up to the tv. It works ok. Some channels dont come in
>> perfect some of the time. I've tried adjusting it w/ no luck. I see
>> these new style antennas for sale on line.
>>
>> Are they better then the old style?
>> Has anyone tried both?
>
> I just noticed the dimensions.
>
> Dimensions: 22.8" x 17.7" x 25.8"
>
> I'm not sure which dimension refers to what, but all but one of the
> elements are smaller than the maximum in the same direction.   They
> are folded over, but I'm not sure that's good.  Let's assume it's not
> bad.  It still leaves those elements at about 3/2 the dimension, ad
> most 38", and 5 of the 6 of them are the same size.   (or 7.  One or
> two things are reflectors)
>
> The antennas they have been selling for 60 years have elements of
> different lengths because there are channels o
f different wavelengths.

   That's a LPDA (log periodic dipole array).

   A popular choice for UHF are bow tie.

   This antenna has large diameter closed loop elements which leads to a 
wide frequency range.

   That won't work well on VHF as the elements, particularly in the low 
range are small compared with the wavelength. Ditto on the reflector 
which becomes smaller  than a wavelength.

   http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html

   I'd probably choose a different antenna, although if the OP know what 
stations and where this may work well. Most stations are now UHF but 
there are a few VHF.

>
> The better antenanas have more elements, each of a different length.
>
> Let's assume it could be bad to have the element folded over.  It
> could be because the same tv signal will induce a current in one
> direction in one half of the element and in the opposite direction in
> the ohter half of the element.  Or maybe not, but it seems that way to
> me.
>
> Ah, but it probably has an amplifier.   It's much better to have a
> strong signal from the antenna, than a weak signal that is amplified.
> Amplifiers are recommended when there is a long distance from the
> antenna to the tv.  Of course maybe that used to be more true, because
> the antenna would amplify the "noise" too.  Now most noise is filtered
> out in the process of digital detection.   Maybe.  I'm no techie.


   That is my take also.

   Note if you take the number of elements and do a rough gain 
calculation, the numbers don't add up to all antenna gain. My rough 
guess is about 8 dB or so.
>
> That said, I'm dissatisfied with my big antenna and I'm going to buy
> an amplifier on the hopesw that it will help.
>
> The first week the antenna was in the attic, I got channel 26, and
> channels 30.1 to 30.5.  Teh channels 30 are even farther from me than
> DC, but I hven't gotten them again except in the middle of the night.
> So I do have a signal but maybe it is too weak.

   Might need to get it out of the attic.

   Jeff
(used to hold a ham license, still remember something.... or part of 
something!)

On Sep 1, 11:05=A0pm, Jdog  wrote:
> I have an old antenna in the attic. When i moved into my house i
> hooked it up to the tv. It works ok. Some channels dont come in
> perfect some of the time. I've tried adjusting it w/ no luck. I see
> these new style antennas for sale on line.
> =A0http://www.antennahub.com/highgainoutdoorhdtvantennawithmotorrotorax-.=
..
>
> Are they better then the old style?
> Has anyone tried both?

IF IT IS A ROOF TOP OR EXTERIOR MODEL
YOU CAN JUST ADD AN INLINE SIGNAL BOOSTER TO YOUR EXISTING ANTENNA
THE MORE DB GAIN THE BETTER
AN ANTENNA ROTOR PLUS THE AMP WILL KICK BUT
BECAUSE YOU CAN ROTATE THE ARRAY AND HONE IN THE SIGNAL

INTERIOR RABBIT EARS WITH OUT AMPLIFICATION ARE INSUFFICIENT
THOUGH SOMEWHAT EFFECTIVE
DEPENDING ON SIGNAL STRENGTH IN YOUR AREA AND HOME

IAP

On 9/1/2010 10:05 PM, Jdog wrote:
> I have an old antenna in the attic. When i moved into my house i
> hooked it up to the tv. It works ok. Some channels dont come in
> perfect some of the time. I've tried adjusting it w/ no luck. I see
> these new style antennas for sale on line.
>   http://www.antennahub.com/highgainoutdoorhdtvantennawithmotorrotorax-909-preorder.aspx
>
> Are they better then the old style?
> Has anyone tried both?
It all depends on your situation.  If that one is expensive
it probably isn't worth it.  I have 2 antennas in the attic.
I have a largish yagi that pulls in the main local channels
just great.  They are all in about the same direction.  But
it does a poor job on channels to the side.  So I made up one
with a folded dipole vhf antenna and a bowtie uhf antenna.
I mounted them in the attic with the folded dipole pointed
at the main stations and the bowtie pointed at 90 degrees,
so it could pick up the college station at Claremore. That is
about 35 miles away, and it comes in fine.  I do get an
occasional drop out, which I suspect is a plane flying
through the pattern.  The folded dipole pointed at the
major channels gets a good signal, but has more drop outs.
I suspect that is because the signal path is right over
a busy freeway, and trucks stick up high enough to
cause reflections.  You may have some or all of these
conditions.

I have cable so I didn't really need these, but I wanted
to be able to get the signal off the air for bad times when
the cable might be down (bad weather and such).  Then I
wanted the Claremore station because at the time they were
showing Classic Arts Showcase 24 hours a day on the sub
channel.

Bill