It used to be that people with DIY projects would take the time to learn how 
to do something (buy and read books) and would purchase the proper tools to 
do the job. The thing being either you pay someone else to do it, or you do 
it yourself the correct way and with the proper tools...

These days I'm seeing a lot of people who don't even TRY to learn about how 
to do something and don't want to buy the tools. They ask on the internet 
and seem to want someone to do all the work for them and tell them exactly 
what to do. And they think they can do ANYTHING themselves! ("Just tell me 
how to fix this!")

I think this is because of all of those DIY shows on TV.

They need a new set of shows on TV which explain that some things require 
learning and proper tools. Or that you need to call pro if you are not 
willing to take the time to learn about something. And that some things can 
take years to learn about...

Bill wrote:
> It used to be that people with DIY projects would take the time to learn how 
> to do something (buy and read books) and would purchase the proper tools to 
> do the job. The thing being either you pay someone else to do it, or you do 
> it yourself the correct way and with the proper tools...
> 
> These days I'm seeing a lot of people who don't even TRY to learn about how 
> to do something and don't want to buy the tools. They ask on the internet 
> and seem to want someone to do all the work for them and tell them exactly 
> what to do. And they think they can do ANYTHING themselves! ("Just tell me 
> how to fix this!")
> 
> I think this is because of all of those DIY shows on TV.
> 
> They need a new set of shows on TV which explain that some things require 
> learning and proper tools. Or that you need to call pro if you are not 
> willing to take the time to learn about something. And that some things can 
> take years to learn about...
> 

When I was a kid back in the middle of the last
century, "shop" was a class taught in the schools.
I wonder if there is anything like that in schools
today?

TDD

The Daring Dufas <t...@peckerhead.net> wondered in message 
news:gt20ne$d0r$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
[snip]
> When I was a kid back in the middle of the last
> century, "shop" was a class taught in the schools.
> I wonder if there is anything like that in schools
> today?

In the local districts to me the middle schools still have sewing, wood and 
metal, cooking, and art classes.  The local high school systems still offer 
woods and metals but sewing and art (I believe) were removed because of 
insurane issues -- needles can be used as weapons and someone might burn the 
school down with the kiln or some such stupidity. Cooking is still offered, 
too, but it's probably going to go the way of auto shop soon. Trade and 
vocational schools just didn't make a large enough profit. The local 
community college is having greater difficulty meeting OSHA regulations so 
their nationally recognized (and hugely popular) auto shop is looking to get 
closed down.

Vocational and trade schools just don't make a super-profit and we are a 
white-collar society, truly afraid of any blue-collar work... 

The Ranger 

The Ranger wrote:
> The Daring Dufas <t...@peckerhead.net> wondered in message 
> news:gt20ne$d0r$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
> [snip]
>> When I was a kid back in the middle of the last
>> century, "shop" was a class taught in the schools.
>> I wonder if there is anything like that in schools
>> today?
> 
> In the local districts to me the middle schools still have sewing, wood and 
> metal, cooking, and art classes.  The local high school systems still offer 
> woods and metals but sewing and art (I believe) were removed because of 
> insurane issues -- needles can be used as weapons and someone might burn the 
> school down with the kiln or some such stupidity. Cooking is still offered, 
> too, but it's probably going to go the way of auto shop soon. Trade and 
> vocational schools just didn't make a large enough profit. The local 
> community college is having greater difficulty meeting OSHA regulations so 
> their nationally recognized (and hugely popular) auto shop is looking to get 
> closed down.
> 
> Vocational and trade schools just don't make a super-profit and we are a 
> white-collar society, truly afraid of any blue-collar work... 
> 
> The Ranger 
> 
>

It's a shame because kids are hungry for knowledge
despite what some pessimistic news reports may say.
I you feed them crap, well you are what you eat.
I'd like to see a good old apprenticeship program
added to the educational structure of the United
States. If a kid wants to learn, make it profitable
for private industry to help them do so. I know a
lot of guys like me who would be glad to pass on
our skill set to a younger generation but can not
afford to do so because we're too small as companies
and don't have the resources.

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> It used to be that people with DIY projects would take the time to 
>> learn how to do something (buy and read books) and would purchase the 
>> proper tools to do the job. The thing being either you pay someone 
>> else to do it, or you do it yourself the correct way and with the 
>> proper tools...
>>
>> These days I'm seeing a lot of people who don't even TRY to learn 
>> about how to do something and don't want to buy the tools. They ask on 
>> the internet and seem to want someone to do all the work for them and 
>> tell them exactly what to do. And they think they can do ANYTHING 
>> themselves! ("Just tell me how to fix this!")
>>
>> I think this is because of all of those DIY shows on TV.
>>
>> They need a new set of shows on TV which explain that some things 
>> require learning and proper tools. Or that you need to call pro if you 
>> are not willing to take the time to learn about something. And that 
>> some things can take years to learn about...
>>
> 
> When I was a kid back in the middle of the last
> century, "shop" was a class taught in the schools.
> I wonder if there is anything like that in schools
> today?

I first learned about woodworking at the Boy's Club about the same time. 
  I recently toured the same facility, now called the Boy's and Girl's 
Club.  The old shop has been replaced by an Art Room.  Something to do 
with lawyers.

Patrick Karl wrote:

> I first learned about woodworking at the Boy's Club about the same
>  time. I recently toured the same facility, now called the Boy's and
> Girl's Club.  The old shop has been replaced by an Art Room. Something to 
> do with lawyers.

That sounds about right, and if any kid every feels bad about his art not 
being appreciated enough it will be converted to a Self-esteem and Personal 
Expression Encouragement Module, staffed by mimes. 

The Daring Dufas wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> It used to be that people with DIY projects would take the time to 
>> learn how to do something (buy and read books) and would purchase the 
>> proper tools to do the job. The thing being either you pay someone 
>> else to do it, or you do it yourself the correct way and with the 
>> proper tools...
>>
>> These days I'm seeing a lot of people who don't even TRY to learn 
>> about how to do something and don't want to buy the tools. They ask on 
>> the internet and seem to want someone to do all the work for them and 
>> tell them exactly what to do. And they think they can do ANYTHING 
>> themselves! ("Just tell me how to fix this!")
>>
>> I think this is because of all of those DIY shows on TV.
>>
>> They need a new set of shows on TV which explain that some things 
>> require learning and proper tools. Or that you need to call pro if you 
>> are not willing to take the time to learn about something. And that 
>> some things can take years to learn about...
>>
> 
> When I was a kid back in the middle of the last
> century, "shop" was a class taught in the schools.
> I wonder if there is anything like that in schools
> today?
> 
> TDD
> 
Town I grew up in, shop class was a junior high thing, and did not teach 
anything actually useful. Who has a lathe at home, or a casting furnace? 
An artifact of an era when 2/3 of the HS graduates would be getting jobs 
in places like that, but still taught several years too early to be useful.

I learned most of what I know about construction from hanging out on job 
sites from single-digit age. First few years, pushing a broom and 
wielding a scoop shovel, but still educational. Didn't even realize I 
was learning, at the time. Ended up driving a desk for a living after 
college, because I realized I liked having Heat and A/C, instead of 
whatever mother nature provided, not to mention a regular reliable 
paycheck. (Things that are rather iffy at times in the trades.) But I do 
miss it sometimes, aside from the part about dealing with clueless 
silly-ass customers.

--
aem sends...

On Apr 26, 9:06=A0am, The Daring Dufas 
wrote:
> Bill wrote:
> > It used to be that people with DIY projects would take the time to lear=
n how
> > to do something (buy and read books) and would purchase the proper tool=
s to
> > do the job. The thing being either you pay someone else to do it, or yo=
u do
> > it yourself the correct way and with the proper tools...
>
> > These days I'm seeing a lot of people who don't even TRY to learn about=
 how
> > to do something and don't want to buy the tools. They ask on the intern=
et
> > and seem to want someone to do all the work for them and tell them exac=
tly
> > what to do. And they think they can do ANYTHING themselves! ("Just tell=
 me
> > how to fix this!")
>
> > I think this is because of all of those DIY shows on TV.
>
> > They need a new set of shows on TV which explain that some things requi=
re
> > learning and proper tools. Or that you need to call pro if you are not
> > willing to take the time to learn about something. And that some things=
 can
> > take years to learn about...
>
> When I was a kid back in the middle of the last
> century, "shop" was a class taught in the schools.
> I wonder if there is anything like that in schools
> today?
>
> TDD

Drama classes have replaced them, the metal shop was turned into a
mini-stage.


cheers
Bob

aemeijers wrote:
> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>> It used to be that people with DIY projects would take the time to 
>>> learn how to do something (buy and read books) and would purchase the 
>>> proper tools to do the job. The thing being either you pay someone 
>>> else to do it, or you do it yourself the correct way and with the 
>>> proper tools...
>>>
>>> These days I'm seeing a lot of people who don't even TRY to learn 
>>> about how to do something and don't want to buy the tools. They ask 
>>> on the internet and seem to want someone to do all the work for them 
>>> and tell them exactly what to do. And they think they can do ANYTHING 
>>> themselves! ("Just tell me how to fix this!")
>>>
>>> I think this is because of all of those DIY shows on TV.
>>>
>>> They need a new set of shows on TV which explain that some things 
>>> require learning and proper tools. Or that you need to call pro if 
>>> you are not willing to take the time to learn about something. And 
>>> that some things can take years to learn about...
>>>
>>
>> When I was a kid back in the middle of the last
>> century, "shop" was a class taught in the schools.
>> I wonder if there is anything like that in schools
>> today?
>>
>> TDD
>>
> Town I grew up in, shop class was a junior high thing, and did not teach 
> anything actually useful. Who has a lathe at home, or a casting furnace? 
> An artifact of an era when 2/3 of the HS graduates would be getting jobs 
> in places like that, but still taught several years too early to be useful.
> 
> I learned most of what I know about construction from hanging out on job 
> sites from single-digit age. First few years, pushing a broom and 
> wielding a scoop shovel, but still educational. Didn't even realize I 
> was learning, at the time. Ended up driving a desk for a living after 
> college, because I realized I liked having Heat and A/C, instead of 
> whatever mother nature provided, not to mention a regular reliable 
> paycheck. (Things that are rather iffy at times in the trades.) But I do 
> miss it sometimes, aside from the part about dealing with clueless 
> silly-ass customers.
> 
> -- 
> aem sends...
> 

I have a friend who is 65 and he started working in a cabinet shop
at age 11. The woodworking knowledge he possesses is second to none.

TDD

Patrick Karl wrote:

> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>> It used to be that people with DIY projects would take the time to
>>> learn how to do something (buy and read books) and would purchase the
>>> proper tools to do the job. The thing being either you pay someone
>>> else to do it, or you do it yourself the correct way and with the
>>> proper tools...
>>>
>>> These days I'm seeing a lot of people who don't even TRY to learn
>>> about how to do something and don't want to buy the tools. They ask on
>>> the internet and seem to want someone to do all the work for them and
>>> tell them exactly what to do. And they think they can do ANYTHING
>>> themselves! ("Just tell me how to fix this!")
>>>
>>> I think this is because of all of those DIY shows on TV.
>>>
>>> They need a new set of shows on TV which explain that some things
>>> require learning and proper tools. Or that you need to call pro if you
>>> are not willing to take the time to learn about something. And that
>>> some things can take years to learn about...
>>>
>> 
>> When I was a kid back in the middle of the last
>> century, "shop" was a class taught in the schools.
>> I wonder if there is anything like that in schools
>> today?
> 
> I first learned about woodworking at the Boy's Club about the same time.
>   I recently toured the same facility, now called the Boy's and Girl's
> Club.  The old shop has been replaced by an Art Room.  Something to do
> with lawyers.
Yeah Lawyers have a tendency to ruin everything. I wonder how we got along
without them 30-40 years ago??? Better put on my helmet I'm going down
stairs now.
-- 
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/