We're considering replacement windows for 50 year old wood frame
windows and some not so old aluminum frame windows.  The old wood
windows are difficult/impossible to open and somewhat leaky despite
the storm windows.  We figured that we wanted wood frame windows with
some weatherproof exterior (e.g. aluminum clad wood).  We've talked
with two window places so far, and the window guys strongly prefer
vinyl windows to clad wood windows.  They claim that the vinyl windows
will last longer, as indicated by the superior warranty.  Both of the
window guys claim that they personally installed vinyl in their
houses.

The clad wood windows are definitely more expensive.  And of course
after installation I'd have to paint the interiors.  The ones we got
an estimate for (Semco) are also somewhat more difficult to open and
close than the vinyl (BF Rich, Vytex).

Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
vinyl?  Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood?   I had
heard years ago that vinyl was not a good structural material and that
vinyl frame windows wouldn't last.  But the warranty is better on the
vinyl.  (One of the guys who gave me an estimate has been in business
since 1908 so it seems like they might still be around for warranty
service.  The other one has been around since the 80's.)   I assume
that the maintenance of aluminum clad wood and vinyl should be the
same: none.

We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
it.  Any comments on this sort of product?

On Apr 28, 8:55=A0am, "a...@cam.cornell.edu" 
wrote:
> We're considering replacement windows for 50 year old wood frame
> windows and some not so old aluminum frame windows. =A0The old wood
> windows are difficult/impossible to open and somewhat leaky despite
> the storm windows. =A0We figured that we wanted wood frame windows with
> some weatherproof exterior (e.g. aluminum clad wood). =A0We've talked
> with two window places so far, and the window guys strongly prefer
> vinyl windows to clad wood windows. =A0They claim that the vinyl windows
> will last longer, as indicated by the superior warranty. =A0Both of the
> window guys claim that they personally installed vinyl in their
> houses.
>
> The clad wood windows are definitely more expensive. =A0And of course
> after installation I'd have to paint the interiors. =A0The ones we got
> an estimate for (Semco) are also somewhat more difficult to open and
> close than the vinyl (BF Rich, Vytex).
>
> Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
> vinyl? =A0Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood? =A0 I ha=
d
> heard years ago that vinyl was not a good structural material and that
> vinyl frame windows wouldn't last. =A0But the warranty is better on the
> vinyl. =A0(One of the guys who gave me an estimate has been in business
> since 1908 so it seems like they might still be around for warranty
> service. =A0The other one has been around since the 80's.) =A0 I assume
> that the maintenance of aluminum clad wood and vinyl should be the
> same: none.
>
> We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
> another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
> it. =A0Any comments on this sort of product?

The window brands you mentioned are unknown in our area. They may be
good quality or not, but window makers come and go, some often unable
to survive long because of quality or installation issues. It would be
prudent to research the companies involved for longevity as well.
Major firms like Andersen are offering replacement windows and sashes
at competitive prices and could be a good benchmark for comparing
bids. Good luck.

Joe

On Apr 28, 8:55=A0am, "a...@cam.cornell.edu" 
wrote:
> We're considering replacement windows for 50 year old wood frame
> windows and some not so old aluminum frame windows. =A0The old wood
> windows are difficult/impossible to open and somewhat leaky despite
> the storm windows. =A0We figured that we wanted wood frame windows with
> some weatherproof exterior (e.g. aluminum clad wood). =A0We've talked
> with two window places so far, and the window guys strongly prefer
> vinyl windows to clad wood windows. =A0They claim that the vinyl windows
> will last longer, as indicated by the superior warranty. =A0Both of the
> window guys claim that they personally installed vinyl in their
> houses.
>
> The clad wood windows are definitely more expensive. =A0And of course
> after installation I'd have to paint the interiors. =A0The ones we got
> an estimate for (Semco) are also somewhat more difficult to open and
> close than the vinyl (BF Rich, Vytex).
>
> Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
> vinyl? =A0Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood? =A0 I ha=
d
> heard years ago that vinyl was not a good structural material and that
> vinyl frame windows wouldn't last. =A0But the warranty is better on the
> vinyl. =A0(One of the guys who gave me an estimate has been in business
> since 1908 so it seems like they might still be around for warranty
> service. =A0The other one has been around since the 80's.) =A0 I assume
> that the maintenance of aluminum clad wood and vinyl should be the
> same: none.
>
> We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
> another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
> it. =A0Any comments on this sort of product?

You dont mention brands I know. Off brand cheap can be trouble.
Consumer reports had an old article on maybe 20 windows tested that
included construction, use and durability. There are alot of ratings
for tests used  to determine window performance of frame and glass, id
suggest you learn and use them. Glass is not equal and warrantys
count, but instalation can cause a warranty to be worthless from day
one as I personaly found out. www.energystar.gov   might help you
learn and pick whats best.

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 06:55:40 -0700 (PDT), "a...@cam.cornell.edu"
<a...@cam.cornell.edu> wrote:

>We're considering replacement windows for 50 year old wood frame
>windows and some not so old aluminum frame windows.  The old wood
>windows are difficult/impossible to open and somewhat leaky despite
>the storm windows.  We figured that we wanted wood frame windows with
>some weatherproof exterior (e.g. aluminum clad wood).  We've talked
>with two window places so far, and the window guys strongly prefer
>vinyl windows to clad wood windows.  They claim that the vinyl windows
>will last longer, as indicated by the superior warranty.  Both of the
>window guys claim that they personally installed vinyl in their
>houses.
>
>The clad wood windows are definitely more expensive.  And of course
>after installation I'd have to paint the interiors.  The ones we got
>an estimate for (Semco) are also somewhat more difficult to open and
>close than the vinyl (BF Rich, Vytex).
>
>Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
>vinyl?  Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood?   I had
>heard years ago that vinyl was not a good structural material and that
>vinyl frame windows wouldn't last.  But the warranty is better on the
>vinyl.  (One of the guys who gave me an estimate has been in business
>since 1908 so it seems like they might still be around for warranty
>service.  The other one has been around since the 80's.)   I assume
>that the maintenance of aluminum clad wood and vinyl should be the
>same: none.
>
>We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
>another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
>it.  Any comments on this sort of product?


	In my experience high quality wood, vinyl and vinyl clad
windows all have long lives and look good.  All cheap windows are not
high quality.  Not all expensive windows are high quality.  

	Many windows are local brands and often the design of the
current product has changed over the years so it is even difficult to
judge the current product based on the results of the older lines.

	I would suggest asking to see installations they did 10 years
or more ago, ideally with the same product design as they are selling
today.  A the very least, ask they why they recommend this or that
window design and don't accept a blanket statement, ask for specifics,
like the fiberglass breaks down under long exposure to light or the
wood need frequent maintenance etc. 

I think you just answered your question.  It's your preference.

G.S.


On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 06:55:40 -0700 (PDT), "a...@cam.cornell.edu"
<a...@cam.cornell.edu> wrote:

>We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house

a...@cam.cornell.edu wrote:
> We're considering replacement windows for 50 year old wood frame
> windows and some not so old aluminum frame windows.  The old wood
> windows are difficult/impossible to open and somewhat leaky despite
> the storm windows.  We figured that we wanted wood frame windows with
> some weatherproof exterior (e.g. aluminum clad wood).  We've talked
> with two window places so far, and the window guys strongly prefer
> vinyl windows to clad wood windows.  They claim that the vinyl windows
> will last longer, as indicated by the superior warranty.  Both of the
> window guys claim that they personally installed vinyl in their
> houses.
> 
> The clad wood windows are definitely more expensive.  And of course
> after installation I'd have to paint the interiors.  The ones we got
> an estimate for (Semco) are also somewhat more difficult to open and
> close than the vinyl (BF Rich, Vytex).
> 
> Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
> vinyl?  Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood?   I had
> heard years ago that vinyl was not a good structural material and that
> vinyl frame windows wouldn't last.  But the warranty is better on the
> vinyl.  (One of the guys who gave me an estimate has been in business
> since 1908 so it seems like they might still be around for warranty
> service.  The other one has been around since the 80's.)   I assume
> that the maintenance of aluminum clad wood and vinyl should be the
> same: none.
> 
> We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
> another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
> it.  Any comments on this sort of product?

Wood will cost more and require more maintenance and painting.
I'm installing energy star vinyl replacements and using vinyl trim on 
the outside to cover where the aluminum combos were. I always go for 
paintless products. I hate paint. I have vinyl siding and aluminum trim 
to top it off. If I had shutters I would get prepainted vinyl.
I hate paint.

a...@cam.cornell.edu wrote:
> We're considering replacement windows for 50 year old wood frame
> windows and some not so old aluminum frame windows.  The old wood
> windows are difficult/impossible to open and somewhat leaky despite
> the storm windows.  We figured that we wanted wood frame windows with
> some weatherproof exterior (e.g. aluminum clad wood).  We've talked
> with two window places so far, and the window guys strongly prefer
> vinyl windows to clad wood windows.  They claim that the vinyl windows
> will last longer, as indicated by the superior warranty.  Both of the
> window guys claim that they personally installed vinyl in their
> houses.
>
> The clad wood windows are definitely more expensive.  And of course
> after installation I'd have to paint the interiors.  The ones we got
> an estimate for (Semco) are also somewhat more difficult to open and
> close than the vinyl (BF Rich, Vytex).
>
> Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
> vinyl?  Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood?   I had
> heard years ago that vinyl was not a good structural material and that
> vinyl frame windows wouldn't last.  But the warranty is better on the
> vinyl.  (One of the guys who gave me an estimate has been in business
> since 1908 so it seems like they might still be around for warranty
> service.  The other one has been around since the 80's.)   I assume
> that the maintenance of aluminum clad wood and vinyl should be the
> same: none.
>
> We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
> another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
> it.  Any comments on this sort of product?

One thing to look for --- can the glass be replaced in the sash/window 
frame --- or do you have to go back to the manufacturer, if they are still 
in business and if they still make the vinyl profiles that fit your windows. 
Since double pane insulated glass has a finite life, sometimes they can fail 
after very few months, the ability to replace the glass will allow the 
windows to continue to be useable and not require replacement. If the glass 
is fused or heat welded into the sash/window frame, I would run not walk 
from the product, because you never know if the supplier will be around next 
year, whatever the installer says. 

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 06:55:40 -0700 (PDT), "a...@cam.cornell.edu"
<a...@cam.cornell.edu> wrote:

>We're considering replacement windows for 50 year old wood frame
>windows and some not so old aluminum frame windows.  The old wood
>windows are difficult/impossible to open and somewhat leaky despite
>the storm windows.  We figured that we wanted wood frame windows with
>some weatherproof exterior (e.g. aluminum clad wood).  We've talked
>with two window places so far, and the window guys strongly prefer
>vinyl windows to clad wood windows.  They claim that the vinyl windows
>will last longer, as indicated by the superior warranty.  Both of the
>window guys claim that they personally installed vinyl in their
>houses.
>
>The clad wood windows are definitely more expensive.  And of course
>after installation I'd have to paint the interiors.  The ones we got
>an estimate for (Semco) are also somewhat more difficult to open and
>close than the vinyl (BF Rich, Vytex).
>
>Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
>vinyl?  Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood?   I had
>heard years ago that vinyl was not a good structural material and that
>vinyl frame windows wouldn't last.  But the warranty is better on the
>vinyl.  (One of the guys who gave me an estimate has been in business
>since 1908 so it seems like they might still be around for warranty
>service.  The other one has been around since the 80's.)   I assume
>that the maintenance of aluminum clad wood and vinyl should be the
>same: none.
>
>We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
>another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
>it.  Any comments on this sort of product?
 There are/were vynyl windows with woodgrain textured and coloured
vinyl on the inside.
I think Fenergic was one manufacturer (Warwick Quebec) but I can't say
for sure . They were one of five suppliers the company I worked for
dealt with, and they did provide some rather unique solutions. There
is alco aluminum capped vinyl IIRC.

As for wood vs vinyl, I had the choice and went with high end vinyl.
It will never split, warp, or rot. Cheap vinyl is a different story -
it might not last over 20 years. I think my Rehau product is almost 20
years old now and every bit as good today as the day it was installed.
Not a single pane has lost a seal yet either  (SurLite units out of
Concord Ont).

I also have one Bonneville "ThermoWood" window that I put in because
it was a stock item at the "borg" when the original window needed
replacement NOW.  A crappy window in comparison. It is wood cored
vinyl, or vinyl covered wood, however you want to look at it.

My patio door is also a vynyl outer, wood core construction, kinda
like a golf ball!!.
It has stood up well but it's on the south side so doesn't get the
weather abuse it would on the other side of the house. Only problem is
the weatherstrip got all hard and fragile and I have not been able to
source a proper replacement.

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:36:19 -0400, "EXT"
<n...@reply.in.this.group> wrote:

>a...@cam.cornell.edu wrote:
>> We're considering replacement windows for 50 year old wood frame
>> windows and some not so old aluminum frame windows.  The old wood
>> windows are difficult/impossible to open and somewhat leaky despite
>> the storm windows.  We figured that we wanted wood frame windows with
>> some weatherproof exterior (e.g. aluminum clad wood).  We've talked
>> with two window places so far, and the window guys strongly prefer
>> vinyl windows to clad wood windows.  They claim that the vinyl windows
>> will last longer, as indicated by the superior warranty.  Both of the
>> window guys claim that they personally installed vinyl in their
>> houses.
>>
>> The clad wood windows are definitely more expensive.  And of course
>> after installation I'd have to paint the interiors.  The ones we got
>> an estimate for (Semco) are also somewhat more difficult to open and
>> close than the vinyl (BF Rich, Vytex).
>>
>> Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
>> vinyl?  Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood?   I had
>> heard years ago that vinyl was not a good structural material and that
>> vinyl frame windows wouldn't last.  But the warranty is better on the
>> vinyl.  (One of the guys who gave me an estimate has been in business
>> since 1908 so it seems like they might still be around for warranty
>> service.  The other one has been around since the 80's.)   I assume
>> that the maintenance of aluminum clad wood and vinyl should be the
>> same: none.
>>
>> We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
>> another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
>> it.  Any comments on this sort of product?
>
>One thing to look for --- can the glass be replaced in the sash/window 
>frame --- or do you have to go back to the manufacturer, if they are still 
>in business and if they still make the vinyl profiles that fit your windows. 
>Since double pane insulated glass has a finite life, sometimes they can fail 
>after very few months, the ability to replace the glass will allow the 
>windows to continue to be useable and not require replacement. If the glass 
>is fused or heat welded into the sash/window frame, I would run not walk 
>from the product, because you never know if the supplier will be around next 
>year, whatever the installer says. 
 I've never seen the glass heat welded into the frame. but I HAVE seen
frames that need to be dismantled to get the glass out. I prefer units
where a small vinyl peice pops out to allow the glass to be removed.
If removed carefully they can be re-used many times (if they are
quality vinyl - cheap crap will crack) even if the propfile is no
longer available.
Going with a major brand profile (like Rehau) gives you a better
choice. I believe my windows were built by Euro-Vinyl , using Rehau
Profile stock.

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 06:55:40 -0700 (PDT), "a...@cam.cornell.edu"
<a...@cam.cornell.edu> wrote:

>Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
>vinyl?  Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood? 

In the desert wood, dries up. New homes have vinyl windows, unless it
is a custom home and wood is the choice.

For easy installs -- Check:

http://www.certainteed.com/

Andersen would be my preferred window, bar none!