Livestock need water in winter as much as in warm weather.  Without
using tank heaters, the water will freeze. the animal wont get water and
the costly tank will likely be damaged too.  These heaters are plugged
into an AC outlet and submerged in the water.  If a break in the cord or
short in the heating coil develops, you can end up with dead animals,
and this used to be common on farms.  

I have horses, and I nearly learned the hard way years ago when one
horse could not let go of a tank as the AC surged thru his body.  He
fell, but was still stuck to the tank.  Luckily I saw this happening
outside my window, and ran out the door barefooted on freezing snow, and
ripped the power cord out of the outlet which was on a pole about 25
feet from my door. The horse survived and is still alive some 10 years
later.  The next day I bought a whole case of GFI outlets and replaced
all outlets that these tank heaters are used.  I even made up some plug
in ones by putting a GFI into a waterproof electrical box with a cord to
a regular outlet.  Those are for when I need to plug in a tank heater
for temporary, and dont feel the need to replace the built in outlet for
a one time use.

If it was not for these GFI outlets, several horses may have likely
died.  Some of them seem to like to chew on strange things, like wooden
fences, plastic feed bowls, and power cords.  Damaging all of these
things tends to piss me off, but chewing on cords can and will kill the
animal.  That's where the GFI comes in.  I have never lost any animals,
yet each winter at least one tank heater cord gets chewed up or chewed
completely in half.  At around $50 a piece for these heaters, that
really makes me quite angered, but knowing the animal is ok, is what
matters most.  (even if they are stupid ).

But I've noticed a pattern.  It seems that once they chew a cord, they
never do it again.  This makes me wonder if they do indeed get a shock
for a very small milli-second, before the GFI trips????????

Horses are intelligent, but there must be some reason they dont chew a
cord again.....

Heck, if they chew on the fence boards, I paint cayenne or jalepeno
pepper powder (mixed with mineral oil) on the board.  That stops them
for awhile, but they seem to always try chewing wood again.  Yet, when
they chew off a power cord, I have never seen that horse or pony chew a
cord again.

Somehow I cant get myself to grab a GFI protected hot wire while
standing barefoot on wet ground (remember, horses, cattle, etc are
barefoot, or bare hooved)  In other words they are grounded.  This is
the reason electric fences keep them contained (but that wont kill
them).  Therefore the question arises, while the GFI trips extremely
fast, there must be a brief moment that they feel the voltage.
Otherwise why would they stop chewing cords?

Of course, I'm glad they do.  At $50 a pop, the cost would add up fast
if they did it over and ober.....

Yea, I do my best to run the cords thru steel pipe, and try all sorts of
things like that, but if they want to chew the cord, they will pull the
heater out of the water and pull it out of the pipe, sometimes unplug
it, and .... well, they can just be a major pain in the ass at times....
At the same time, they are the best pets anyone can have, and fun to
ride too.  I would not want to lose any of them from electrocution.

On 1/28/2012 6:24 AM, j...@myplace.com wrote:
> Livestock need water in winter as much as in warm weather.  Without
> using tank heaters, the water will freeze. the animal wont get water and
> the costly tank will likely be damaged too.  These heaters are plugged
> into an AC outlet and submerged in the water.  If a break in the cord or
> short in the heating coil develops, you can end up with dead animals,
> and this used to be common on farms.
>
> I have horses, and I nearly learned the hard way years ago when one
> horse could not let go of a tank as the AC surged thru his body.  He
> fell, but was still stuck to the tank.  Luckily I saw this happening
> outside my window, and ran out the door barefooted on freezing snow, and
> ripped the power cord out of the outlet which was on a pole about 25
> feet from my door. The horse survived and is still alive some 10 years
> later.  The next day I bought a whole case of GFI outlets and replaced
> all outlets that these tank heaters are used.  I even made up some plug
> in ones by putting a GFI into a waterproof electrical box with a cord to
> a regular outlet.  Those are for when I need to plug in a tank heater
> for temporary, and dont feel the need to replace the built in outlet for
> a one time use.
>
> If it was not for these GFI outlets, several horses may have likely
> died.  Some of them seem to like to chew on strange things, like wooden
> fences, plastic feed bowls, and power cords.  Damaging all of these
> things tends to piss me off, but chewing on cords can and will kill the
> animal.  That's where the GFI comes in.  I have never lost any animals,
> yet each winter at least one tank heater cord gets chewed up or chewed
> completely in half.  At around $50 a piece for these heaters, that
> really makes me quite angered, but knowing the animal is ok, is what
> matters most.  (even if they are stupid).
>
> But I've noticed a pattern.  It seems that once they chew a cord, they
> never do it again.  This makes me wonder if they do indeed get a shock
> for a very small milli-second, before the GFI trips????????
>
> Horses are intelligent, but there must be some reason they dont chew a
> cord again.....
>
> Heck, if they chew on the fence boards, I paint cayenne or jalepeno
> pepper powder (mixed with mineral oil) on the board.  That stops them
> for awhile, but they seem to always try chewing wood again.  Yet, when
> they chew off a power cord, I have never seen that horse or pony chew a
> cord again.
>
> Somehow I cant get myself to grab a GFI protected hot wire while
> standing barefoot on wet ground (remember, horses, cattle, etc are
> barefoot, or bare hooved)  In other words they are grounded.  This is
> the reason electric fences keep them contained (but that wont kill
> them).  Therefore the question arises, while the GFI trips extremely
> fast, there must be a brief moment that they feel the voltage.
> Otherwise why would they stop chewing cords?
>
> Of course, I'm glad they do.  At $50 a pop, the cost would add up fast
> if they did it over and ober.....
>
> Yea, I do my best to run the cords thru steel pipe, and try all sorts of
> things like that, but if they want to chew the cord, they will pull the
> heater out of the water and pull it out of the pipe, sometimes unplug
> it, and .... well, they can just be a major pain in the ass at times....
> At the same time, they are the best pets anyone can have, and fun to
> ride too.  I would not want to lose any of them from electrocution.
>
>
> I would believe that they'd get a momentary jolt provided that the device is working properly. I wouldn't recommend
testing for live current by putting yourself in harms way, as the failure rate of GFCI receptacles is pretty high
>

On Jan 28, 5:24=A0am, j...@myplace.com wrote:
> Livestock need water in winter as much as in warm weather. =A0Without
> using tank heaters, the water will freeze. the animal wont get water and
> the costly tank will likely be damaged too. =A0These heaters are plugged
> into an AC outlet and submerged in the water. =A0If a break in the cord o=
r
> short in the heating coil develops, you can end up with dead animals,
> and this used to be common on farms.
>
> I have horses, and I nearly learned the hard way years ago when one
> horse could not let go of a tank as the AC surged thru his body. =A0He
> fell, but was still stuck to the tank. =A0Luckily I saw this happening
> outside my window, and ran out the door barefooted on freezing snow, and
> ripped the power cord out of the outlet which was on a pole about 25
> feet from my door. The horse survived and is still alive some 10 years
> later. =A0The next day I bought a whole case of GFI outlets and replaced
> all outlets that these tank heaters are used. =A0I even made up some plug
> in ones by putting a GFI into a waterproof electrical box with a cord to
> a regular outlet. =A0Those are for when I need to plug in a tank heater
> for temporary, and dont feel the need to replace the built in outlet for
> a one time use.
>
> If it was not for these GFI outlets, several horses may have likely
> died. =A0Some of them seem to like to chew on strange things, like wooden
> fences, plastic feed bowls, and power cords. =A0Damaging all of these
> things tends to piss me off, but chewing on cords can and will kill the
> animal. =A0That's where the GFI comes in. =A0I have never lost any animal=
s,
> yet each winter at least one tank heater cord gets chewed up or chewed
> completely in half. =A0At around $50 a piece for these heaters, that
> really makes me quite angered, but knowing the animal is ok, is what
> matters most. =A0(even if they are stupid ).
>
> But I've noticed a pattern. =A0It seems that once they chew a cord, they
> never do it again. =A0This makes me wonder if they do indeed get a shock
> for a very small milli-second, before the GFI trips????????
>
> Horses are intelligent, but there must be some reason they dont chew a
> cord again.....
>
> Heck, if they chew on the fence boards, I paint cayenne or jalepeno
> pepper powder (mixed with mineral oil) on the board. =A0That stops them
> for awhile, but they seem to always try chewing wood again. =A0Yet, when
> they chew off a power cord, I have never seen that horse or pony chew a
> cord again.
>
> Somehow I cant get myself to grab a GFI protected hot wire while
> standing barefoot on wet ground (remember, horses, cattle, etc are
> barefoot, or bare hooved) =A0In other words they are grounded. =A0This is
> the reason electric fences keep them contained (but that wont kill
> them). =A0Therefore the question arises, while the GFI trips extremely
> fast, there must be a brief moment that they feel the voltage.
> Otherwise why would they stop chewing cords?
>
> Of course, I'm glad they do. =A0At $50 a pop, the cost would add up fast
> if they did it over and ober.....
>
> Yea, I do my best to run the cords thru steel pipe, and try all sorts of
> things like that, but if they want to chew the cord, they will pull the
> heater out of the water and pull it out of the pipe, sometimes unplug
> it, and .... well, they can just be a major pain in the ass at times....
> At the same time, they are the best pets anyone can have, and fun to
> ride too. =A0I would not want to lose any of them from electrocution.

There is a simple test you can do with an unfolded paper clip or a
hair pin.

Hhmmmmm............ No.  Never mind!

RonB    :o)

Have you considered they might be bored out of thier minds, and looking for 
something to do? How about put some thing in the stalls, for them to do? 
Maybe you can hire "Only In America, Larry the cable guy does....." to find 
a way to provide entertainment, during the horses off hours?

Lets hope the horses don't figure out how to putsh the reset button while 
another horse is chewing the cords?

I'm not all sure how practical this is, but maybe a circulating pump from 
the stock water, back to some where indoors. And have an indirect heater 
from a fuel fired boiler, instead of using expensive electric filament heat.

Chewing on wooden rails? Sure sounds like boredom, to me. Or, teething.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
  www.lds.org
.

<j...@myplace.com> wrote in message 
news:a...@4ax.com...
Livestock need water in winter as much as in warm weather.  Without
using tank heaters, the water will freeze. the animal wont get water and
the costly tank will likely be damaged too.  These heaters are plugged
into an AC outlet and submerged in the water.  If a break in the cord or
short in the heating coil develops, you can end up with dead animals,
and this used to be common on farms.

I have horses, and I nearly learned the hard way years ago when one
horse could not let go of a tank as the AC surged thru his body.  He
fell, but was still stuck to the tank.  Luckily I saw this happening
outside my window, and ran out the door barefooted on freezing snow, and
ripped the power cord out of the outlet which was on a pole about 25
feet from my door. The horse survived and is still alive some 10 years
later.  The next day I bought a whole case of GFI outlets and replaced
all outlets that these tank heaters are used.  I even made up some plug
in ones by putting a GFI into a waterproof electrical box with a cord to
a regular outlet.  Those are for when I need to plug in a tank heater
for temporary, and dont feel the need to replace the built in outlet for
a one time use.

If it was not for these GFI outlets, several horses may have likely
died.  Some of them seem to like to chew on strange things, like wooden
fences, plastic feed bowls, and power cords.  Damaging all of these
things tends to piss me off, but chewing on cords can and will kill the
animal.  That's where the GFI comes in.  I have never lost any animals,
yet each winter at least one tank heater cord gets chewed up or chewed
completely in half.  At around $50 a piece for these heaters, that
really makes me quite angered, but knowing the animal is ok, is what
matters most.  (even if they are stupid ).

But I've noticed a pattern.  It seems that once they chew a cord, they
never do it again.  This makes me wonder if they do indeed get a shock
for a very small milli-second, before the GFI trips????????

Horses are intelligent, but there must be some reason they dont chew a
cord again.....

Heck, if they chew on the fence boards, I paint cayenne or jalepeno
pepper powder (mixed with mineral oil) on the board.  That stops them
for awhile, but they seem to always try chewing wood again.  Yet, when
they chew off a power cord, I have never seen that horse or pony chew a
cord again.

Somehow I cant get myself to grab a GFI protected hot wire while
standing barefoot on wet ground (remember, horses, cattle, etc are
barefoot, or bare hooved)  In other words they are grounded.  This is
the reason electric fences keep them contained (but that wont kill
them).  Therefore the question arises, while the GFI trips extremely
fast, there must be a brief moment that they feel the voltage.
Otherwise why would they stop chewing cords?

Of course, I'm glad they do.  At $50 a pop, the cost would add up fast
if they did it over and ober.....

Yea, I do my best to run the cords thru steel pipe, and try all sorts of
things like that, but if they want to chew the cord, they will pull the
heater out of the water and pull it out of the pipe, sometimes unplug
it, and .... well, they can just be a major pain in the ass at times....
At the same time, they are the best pets anyone can have, and fun to
ride too.  I would not want to lose any of them from electrocution.

RonB <r...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Jan 28, 5:24 am, j...@myplace.com wrote:

-snip-
>>
>> But I've noticed a pattern.  It seems that once they chew a cord, they
>> never do it again.  This makes me wonder if they do indeed get a shock
>> for a very small milli-second, before the GFI trips????????

-snip-
>
>There is a simple test you can do with an unfolded paper clip or a
>hair pin.
>
>Hhmmmmm............ No.  Never mind!

That will test for a short, not a Ground Fault.    I think urinating
on the outlet is the proper way to test for GFI.

I could be wrong.

Jim

That sounds like a bad idea. So, what happens when on the 1 of 100, you find 
a defective GFCI (probably made by FPE Stabloc) and you end up whizzing on 
about 50 amps or so of AC current? Let me guess, you yell "Hot dog!"

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
  www.lds.org
.

"Jim Elbrecht" <e...@email.com> wrote in message 
news:0...@4ax.com...


>
>There is a simple test you can do with an unfolded paper clip or a
>hair pin.
>
>Hhmmmmm............ No.  Never mind!

That will test for a short, not a Ground Fault.    I think urinating
on the outlet is the proper way to test for GFI.

I could be wrong.

Jim

On Jan 28, 4:24=A0am, j...@myplace.com wrote:
> Livestock need water in winter as much as in warm weather. =A0Without
> using tank heaters, the water will freeze. the animal wont get water and
> the costly tank will likely be damaged too. =A0These heaters are plugged
> into an AC outlet and submerged in the water. =A0If a break in the cord o=
r
> short in the heating coil develops, you can end up with dead animals,
> and this used to be common on farms.
>
> I have horses, and I nearly learned the hard way years ago when one
> horse could not let go of a tank as the AC surged thru his body. =A0He
> fell, but was still stuck to the tank. =A0Luckily I saw this happening
> outside my window, and ran out the door barefooted on freezing snow, and
> ripped the power cord out of the outlet which was on a pole about 25
> feet from my door. The horse survived and is still alive some 10 years
> later. =A0The next day I bought a whole case of GFI outlets and replaced
> all outlets that these tank heaters are used. =A0I even made up some plug
> in ones by putting a GFI into a waterproof electrical box with a cord to
> a regular outlet. =A0Those are for when I need to plug in a tank heater
> for temporary, and dont feel the need to replace the built in outlet for
> a one time use.
>
> If it was not for these GFI outlets, several horses may have likely
> died. =A0Some of them seem to like to chew on strange things, like wooden
> fences, plastic feed bowls, and power cords. =A0Damaging all of these
> things tends to piss me off, but chewing on cords can and will kill the
> animal. =A0That's where the GFI comes in. =A0I have never lost any animal=
s,
> yet each winter at least one tank heater cord gets chewed up or chewed
> completely in half. =A0At around $50 a piece for these heaters, that
> really makes me quite angered, but knowing the animal is ok, is what
> matters most. =A0(even if they are stupid ).
>
> But I've noticed a pattern. =A0It seems that once they chew a cord, they
> never do it again. =A0This makes me wonder if they do indeed get a shock
> for a very small milli-second, before the GFI trips????????
>
> Horses are intelligent, but there must be some reason they dont chew a
> cord again.....
>
> Heck, if they chew on the fence boards, I paint cayenne or jalepeno
> pepper powder (mixed with mineral oil) on the board. =A0That stops them
> for awhile, but they seem to always try chewing wood again. =A0Yet, when
> they chew off a power cord, I have never seen that horse or pony chew a
> cord again.
>
> Somehow I cant get myself to grab a GFI protected hot wire while
> standing barefoot on wet ground (remember, horses, cattle, etc are
> barefoot, or bare hooved) =A0In other words they are grounded. =A0This is
> the reason electric fences keep them contained (but that wont kill
> them). =A0Therefore the question arises, while the GFI trips extremely
> fast, there must be a brief moment that they feel the voltage.
> Otherwise why would they stop chewing cords?
>
> Of course, I'm glad they do. =A0At $50 a pop, the cost would add up fast
> if they did it over and ober.....
>
> Yea, I do my best to run the cords thru steel pipe, and try all sorts of
> things like that, but if they want to chew the cord, they will pull the
> heater out of the water and pull it out of the pipe, sometimes unplug
> it, and .... well, they can just be a major pain in the ass at times....
> At the same time, they are the best pets anyone can have, and fun to
> ride too. =A0I would not want to lose any of them from electrocution.

YES! painful for a short time.

On Jan 28, 5:24=A0am, j...@myplace.com wrote:
> [...] =A0Therefore the question arises, while the GFI trips extremely
> fast, there must be a brief moment that they feel the voltage.
> Otherwise why would they stop chewing cords?
>

Well of course the current flows until the GFI trips, so for that
fraction of a second you or the horse are going to feel the shock. I
think I would put the cords into flexible aluminum conduit and make
sure the conduit is grounded. Adding a 6ft grounding rod near the
water would also be a good idea to supplement the one back at the
meter.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/metal-flexible-conduit/conduit/electrical/=
ecatalog/N-8aoZ1z0yb1f

On Jan 28, 5:24=A0am, Jim Elbrecht  wrote:
> RonB  wrote:
> >On Jan 28, 5:24=A0am, j...@myplace.com wrote:
>
> -snip-
>
>
>
> >> But I've noticed a pattern. =A0It seems that once they chew a cord, th=
ey
> >> never do it again. =A0This makes me wonder if they do indeed get a sho=
ck
> >> for a very small milli-second, before the GFI trips????????
>
> -snip-
>
>
>
> >There is a simple test you can do with an unfolded paper clip or a
> >hair pin.
>
> >Hhmmmmm............ No. =A0Never mind!
>
> That will test for a short, not a Ground Fault. =A0 =A0I think urinating
> on the outlet is the proper way to test for GFI.
>
> I could be wrong.
>
> Jim

It for sure will test an electric fence.  I learned that at about 6yoa
when my brother had me test one.

Harry K

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 05:24:10 -0600, j...@myplace.com wrote:

>This makes me wonder if they do indeed get a shock
>for a very small milli-second, before the GFI trips????????

It is several milliseconds and you do feel the shock. 

The old adage is the GFCI keeps you from being electrocuted but it
doesn't keep you from falling off the ladder.

Falls kill a lot more construction workers than shocks