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Home Repair Forum | Gutter installation/attachment questions

There are 7 messages in this thread.

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Gutter installation/attachment questions - Jay-T - 2010-06-04 23:36:00

I just had new soffits, fascia, and seamless gutters installed on a 3-story 
house I own.  I had this done after a new roof (with all new plywood 
decking, etc.) was put on a few weeks ago.

My question is about how the gutters get attached to the house.  Since it is 
an old house, some parts of the fascia are aluminum wrapped contoured would 
trim, and other parts are flat fascia.  Where it could be done, the 
contractor screwed the new gutters directly into the fascia with no overhead 
hanging straps.  But, for other areas, the contractor needed to use hanging 
straps that get attached to the roof.

For the areas where hanging straps needed to be attached to the roof, how 
should that be done?

I always thought that the hanging straps should be attached by lifting the 
first row of shingles and then nailing or screwing the straps to the roof 
underneath that first row.  However, this contractor just placed the metal 
hanging straps on top of the shingles and screwed them in through the 
shingles into the roof decking.

A neighbor of mine who owns a number of properties that he has had rehabbed 
said that's how they do it now.  When I said I thought that could cause roof 
leaks he said that they use clear caulk where the screws go in to prevent 
leaks.  In my case, the contractor didn't use any caulk - he just screwed 
the straps through the shingles and into the roof decking.

So, how should these hanging straps be attached to the roof? 


Re: Gutter installation/attachment questions - aemeijers - 2010-06-05 04:44:00

Jay-T wrote:
> I just had new soffits, fascia, and seamless gutters installed on a 
> 3-story house I own.  I had this done after a new roof (with all new 
> plywood decking, etc.) was put on a few weeks ago.
> 
> My question is about how the gutters get attached to the house.  Since 
> it is an old house, some parts of the fascia are aluminum wrapped 
> contoured would trim, and other parts are flat fascia.  Where it could 
> be done, the contractor screwed the new gutters directly into the fascia 
> with no overhead hanging straps.  But, for other areas, the contractor 
> needed to use hanging straps that get attached to the roof.
> 
> For the areas where hanging straps needed to be attached to the roof, 
> how should that be done?
> 
> I always thought that the hanging straps should be attached by lifting 
> the first row of shingles and then nailing or screwing the straps to the 
> roof underneath that first row.  However, this contractor just placed 
> the metal hanging straps on top of the shingles and screwed them in 
> through the shingles into the roof decking.
> 
> A neighbor of mine who owns a number of properties that he has had 
> rehabbed said that's how they do it now.  When I said I thought that 
> could cause roof leaks he said that they use clear caulk where the 
> screws go in to prevent leaks.  In my case, the contractor didn't use 
> any caulk - he just screwed the straps through the shingles and into the 
> roof decking.
> 
> So, how should these hanging straps be attached to the roof?

If your roofer used the self-sealing ice dam membrane on the lower 3 
feet of the roof (required by code here in snow country, for new 
construction, and maybe for full tear-offs), you should be okay.  I 
probably would have made other arrangements while the roof deck was 
bare, just for looks, but roofers hate doing any special touches that 
slow them down, being paid by the job and all.

-- 
aem sends...

Re: Gutter installation/attachment questions - EXT - 2010-06-05 18:13:00

"Jay-T" <J...@abshjker.hjk> wrote in message 
news:hucgmt$pa7$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> I just had new soffits, fascia, and seamless gutters installed on a 
> 3-story house I own.  I had this done after a new roof (with all new 
> plywood decking, etc.) was put on a few weeks ago.
>
> My question is about how the gutters get attached to the house.  Since it 
> is an old house, some parts of the fascia are aluminum wrapped contoured 
> would trim, and other parts are flat fascia.  Where it could be done, the 
> contractor screwed the new gutters directly into the fascia with no 
> overhead hanging straps.  But, for other areas, the contractor needed to 
> use hanging straps that get attached to the roof.
>
> For the areas where hanging straps needed to be attached to the roof, how 
> should that be done?
>
> I always thought that the hanging straps should be attached by lifting the 
> first row of shingles and then nailing or screwing the straps to the roof 
> underneath that first row.  However, this contractor just placed the metal 
> hanging straps on top of the shingles and screwed them in through the 
> shingles into the roof decking.
>
> A neighbor of mine who owns a number of properties that he has had 
> rehabbed said that's how they do it now.  When I said I thought that could 
> cause roof leaks he said that they use clear caulk where the screws go in 
> to prevent leaks.  In my case, the contractor didn't use any caulk - he 
> just screwed the straps through the shingles and into the roof decking.
>
> So, how should these hanging straps be attached to the roof?

There is no way that I would accept gutter support straps screwed on top of 
and through the shingles, caulk or no caulk. That is a lazy shortcut. The 
bottom edge of the shingles should droop into the gutter to deposit the 
water into the gutter, how does the shingle do that if the gutter support 
strap is mounted over the shingle. Sounds like water damage coming in short 
order. 


Re: Gutter installation/attachment questions - Jay-T - 2010-06-05 21:54:00

"EXT" <n...@reply.in.this.group> wrote in message 
news:4c0acd8b$0$65840$8...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
>
> "Jay-T" <J...@abshjker.hjk> wrote in message 
> news:hucgmt$pa7$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>> I just had new soffits, fascia, and seamless gutters installed on a 
>> 3-story house I own.  I had this done after a new roof (with all new 
>> plywood decking, etc.) was put on a few weeks ago.
>>
>> My question is about how the gutters get attached to the house.  Since it 
>> is an old house, some parts of the fascia are aluminum wrapped contoured 
>> would trim, and other parts are flat fascia.  Where it could be done, the 
>> contractor screwed the new gutters directly into the fascia with no 
>> overhead hanging straps.  But, for other areas, the contractor needed to 
>> use hanging straps that get attached to the roof.
>>
>> For the areas where hanging straps needed to be attached to the roof, how 
>> should that be done?
>>
>> I always thought that the hanging straps should be attached by lifting 
>> the first row of shingles and then nailing or screwing the straps to the 
>> roof underneath that first row.  However, this contractor just placed the 
>> metal hanging straps on top of the shingles and screwed them in through 
>> the shingles into the roof decking.
>>
>> A neighbor of mine who owns a number of properties that he has had 
>> rehabbed said that's how they do it now.  When I said I thought that 
>> could cause roof leaks he said that they use clear caulk where the screws 
>> go in to prevent leaks.  In my case, the contractor didn't use any 
>> caulk - he just screwed the straps through the shingles and into the roof 
>> decking.
>>
>> So, how should these hanging straps be attached to the roof?
>
> There is no way that I would accept gutter support straps screwed on top 
> of and through the shingles, caulk or no caulk. That is a lazy shortcut. 
> The bottom edge of the shingles should droop into the gutter to deposit 
> the water into the gutter, how does the shingle do that if the gutter 
> support strap is mounted over the shingle. Sounds like water damage coming 
> in short order.
I hadn't thought about that aspect of it -- meaning how the shingles will 
direct the flow of water where the straps are screwed in.  I'll look at that 
more closely tomorrow.

It does look like a lazy shortcut to me, but I just don't know what the 
standard way of doing it is supposed to be.  I'll keep searching to see if I 
can find that information somewhere. 


Re: Gutter installation/attachment questions - hr(bob) hofmann@att.net - 2010-06-05 21:59:00

On Jun 5, 8:54=A0pm, "Jay-T"  wrote:
> "EXT"  wrote in message
>
> news:4c0acd8b$0$65840$8...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Jay-T"  wrote in message
> >news:hucgmt$pa7$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> >> I just had new soffits, fascia, and seamless gutters installed on a
> >> 3-story house I own. =A0I had this done after a new roof (with all new
> >> plywood decking, etc.) was put on a few weeks ago.
>
> >> My question is about how the gutters get attached to the house. =A0Sin=
ce it
> >> is an old house, some parts of the fascia are aluminum wrapped contour=
ed
> >> would trim, and other parts are flat fascia. =A0Where it could be done=
, the
> >> contractor screwed the new gutters directly into the fascia with no
> >> overhead hanging straps. =A0But, for other areas, the contractor neede=
d to
> >> use hanging straps that get attached to the roof.
>
> >> For the areas where hanging straps needed to be attached to the roof, =
how
> >> should that be done?
>
> >> I always thought that the hanging straps should be attached by lifting
> >> the first row of shingles and then nailing or screwing the straps to t=
he
> >> roof underneath that first row. =A0However, this contractor just place=
d the
> >> metal hanging straps on top of the shingles and screwed them in throug=
h
> >> the shingles into the roof decking.
>
> >> A neighbor of mine who owns a number of properties that he has had
> >> rehabbed said that's how they do it now. =A0When I said I thought that
> >> could cause roof leaks he said that they use clear caulk where the scr=
ews
> >> go in to prevent leaks. =A0In my case, the contractor didn't use any
> >> caulk - he just screwed the straps through the shingles and into the r=
oof
> >> decking.
>
> >> So, how should these hanging straps be attached to the roof?
>
> > There is no way that I would accept gutter support straps screwed on to=
p
> > of and through the shingles, caulk or no caulk. That is a lazy shortcut=
.
> > The bottom edge of the shingles should droop into the gutter to deposit
> > the water into the gutter, how does the shingle do that if the gutter
> > support strap is mounted over the shingle. Sounds like water damage com=
ing
> > in short order.
>
> I hadn't thought about that aspect of it -- meaning how the shingles will
> direct the flow of water where the straps are screwed in. =A0I'll look at=
 that
> more closely tomorrow.
>
> It does look like a lazy shortcut to me, but I just don't know what the
> standard way of doing it is supposed to be. =A0I'll keep searching to see=
 if I
> can find that information somewhere.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You got the fast easy method, too late now, but double-check there is
a waterproofing membrane all along the lower edge, and that there is
caulk around the screws, you might have to carefully remove one to see.

Re: Gutter installation/attachment questions - Bob F - 2010-06-06 10:54:00

Jay-T wrote:
> "EXT" <n...@reply.in.this.group> wrote in message
> news:4c0acd8b$0$65840$8...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
>>
>> "Jay-T" <J...@abshjker.hjk> wrote in message
>> news:hucgmt$pa7$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>> I just had new soffits, fascia, and seamless gutters installed on a
>>> 3-story house I own.  I had this done after a new roof (with all new
>>> plywood decking, etc.) was put on a few weeks ago.
>>>
>>> My question is about how the gutters get attached to the house. Since it is 
>>> an old house, some parts of the fascia are aluminum
>>> wrapped contoured would trim, and other parts are flat fascia. Where it 
>>> could be done, the contractor screwed the new gutters
>>> directly into the fascia with no overhead hanging straps.  But, for
>>> other areas, the contractor needed to use hanging straps that get
>>> attached to the roof. For the areas where hanging straps needed to be 
>>> attached to the
>>> roof, how should that be done?
>>>
>>> I always thought that the hanging straps should be attached by
>>> lifting the first row of shingles and then nailing or screwing the
>>> straps to the roof underneath that first row.  However, this
>>> contractor just placed the metal hanging straps on top of the
>>> shingles and screwed them in through the shingles into the roof
>>> decking. A neighbor of mine who owns a number of properties that he has had
>>> rehabbed said that's how they do it now.  When I said I thought that
>>> could cause roof leaks he said that they use clear caulk where the
>>> screws go in to prevent leaks.  In my case, the contractor didn't
>>> use any caulk - he just screwed the straps through the shingles and into
>>> the roof decking.
>>>
>>> So, how should these hanging straps be attached to the roof?
>>
>> There is no way that I would accept gutter support straps screwed on
>> top of and through the shingles, caulk or no caulk. That is a lazy
>> shortcut. The bottom edge of the shingles should droop into the
>> gutter to deposit the water into the gutter, how does the shingle do
>> that if the gutter support strap is mounted over the shingle. Sounds
>> like water damage coming in short order.
> I hadn't thought about that aspect of it -- meaning how the shingles
> will direct the flow of water where the straps are screwed in.  I'll
> look at that more closely tomorrow.
>
> It does look like a lazy shortcut to me, but I just don't know what
> the standard way of doing it is supposed to be.  I'll keep searching
> to see if I can find that information somewhere.

I've never seen gutters installed that way. If it were my house, I'd demand the 
damage to the roof be properly repaired, and the gutters properly installed.

Just another reason to D-I-Y.




Re: Gutter installation/attachment questions - Jay-T - 2010-06-07 10:31:00

hr(bob) h...@att.net wrote:
>
> You got the fast easy method, too late now, but double-check there is
> a waterproofing membrane all along the lower edge, and that there is
> caulk around the screws, you might have to carefully remove one to
> see.

Thanks hr(bob) and others.

It looks like I did get the fast, easy, crappy, and wrong method of hanging 
the gutters.  There is definitely no caulk around the screws.

I did some http://YouTube.com searching and found gutter installation videos 
and they all show that when using the gutter roof hangers with straps the 
straps get nailed on under the shingle -- not through the shingles.

One brand of the hangers is Amerimax Home Products 5" Mill Finish Roof 
Hanger with Strap (21030).  Here's a link to a photo that shows them being 
mounted under the shingle:

http://media.mydoitbest.com/imagerequest.aspx?sku=118990&size=2&warehouse=C&newsize=600